Reimagining Justice

In episode no. 70 my guest is lawyer, creator and producer of social project ‘Law for the Lay’, Clarissa Campbell. We discuss: The project she began in 2019 to share the law with everyday people; What happened that prompted her to actually start the project;  How her personal and professional background influences her approach; Her unique style using play and humour to share legal information; How she chooses the topics that she covers; Her legal and branding concerns relating to ‘Law for the Lay’; How she selected which social media platform to use, and the challenge of staying up to date with how algorithms work; What a “Lawfluencer” is; Research she’s done for the project which shocked her; Topics that have received unusual responses and how she handles those challenges; The level of technical support she receives and how she manages her time; Things she’s working to improve about her communication; Other ways in which citizens’ legal awareness could be increased; How acting on our own ‘agency’ and unique

In episode no. 69, I reflect on the podcast over the past 12 months and since it began. I share: statistics about Reimagining Justice (downloads, topics, guests and listeners); the most downloaded episodes this year and since the podcast began; an excerpt from Episode 66 with founder Courtroom5 Sonja Ebron; characteristics of (award-winning) justice innovators; and 3 things I learned about legal innovation this year. Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic. Links: Neota Logic's App Gallery Neota Logic Churchill Trust project  QLS Innovation report Top Australian law podcasts Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In episode no. 68 my guest is serial public sector transformer, Pia Andrews. We discuss: how her pursuit of “truth” led her to the open-source movement and working in policy development; how technological tools relate to our quality of life; ‘open source’ – its philosophy and implementation and the idea of “clever hacks”; how ‘rules as code’ addresses issues with enforcing regulation; prescriptive and principles-based rules and when each are appropriate; the connection between the cost of implementing regulation and its effectiveness; how an API for prescriptive rules relating to anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism funding could have saved one bank $16M per year!; how ‘rules as code’ make compliance more transparent by allowing for modelling, and how this could increase accountability of the public sector; how current policy creation is insufficient and requires input from community and an example from France which incorporated co-design of policy; Taiwan’s response to the introduction of Uber! the i

In episode no. 67 I speak with Kate Briscoe, of LegalBeagles. The discussion covers: how Kate’s inability to get a job played a part in starting LegalBeagles; how LegalBeagles works today; the large numbers of threads and visitors to the site; the emerging areas of law covered by LegalBeagles; who the volunteers are, what training they undertake to assist on the platform and why Kate thinks they contribute; how LegalBeagles is filling a gap and providing assistance that isn’t being provided anywhere else including from the funded Citizens Advice Bureau; LegalBeagles’ governance structure and relationship with professional legal regulation; Kate’s views on how a lot of innovation initiatives put the “cart before the horse”; the many reasons it may not be appropriate to go to a lawyer; how machine learning is drawing on LegalBeagles’ employment law data to provide instant responses; various set-backs LegalBeagles has experienced including loss of a major partner; Kate’s thoughts on the role of the legal profes

In episode no. 66, I speak with Sonja Ebron, founder of Courtroom5. The discussion covers: Sonja’s personal experience as a litigant and how that relates to her work today; The types of matters Courtroom5 is best (and not!) suited to, who and how it assists; How the patterns in the law support AI, and how that fast-tracks self-represented litigants’ understanding of their matters; The factors for litigants to do best using Courtroom5; The tools Courtroom5 employs to alleviate emotional distress; The importance of support during litigation and how Courtroom5 provides that; What a “trial playbook” is; How Courtroom5 engages with courts and legal assistance organisations; Judges’ bias against self-represented litigants??? The structure and composition of Courtroom5’s team; Why Courtroom5 constantly seeks customer feedback; Key factors that drive development of the product; The biggest change since Courtroom5 commenced in 2017; Who are the unexpected users of Courtroom5; What has given the company “the biggest b

In episode no. 65 I speak with Michael Green SC, Barrister and founder of Barnet. The discussion covers: Open Law and how technology can make information more accessible; Who are custodians of legal information and how to best maintain it for future generations; The importance of libraries, their centrality to the law and the function of a library in an online world; The changes to the practise of law over the past few decades due to digitisation; Issues of copyright in digitising Commonwealth Law Reports in the “One to a hundred project” A failed experiment in the law: How BarNet’s purpose and activities have changed since 1997 including splitting the networking and the legal publishing functions; How legal researchers select online research platform; Why JADE considers cases at the “paragraph level” and how it actually works in terms of citations, note-ups and the technology and research that supports it; Current research into the differences in information retention from paper and electronic means; The fu

In episode no. 64 I speak with Aniket Doegar, CEO and co-founder of HESPL (Haqdarshak Empowerment Solutions Private Limited), a social impact organisation working on easing access to welfare in India. We cover: What Haqdarshak offers to people and how its services are delivered through the most trustworthy channel; The key reasons that people in India don’t access government social services; Bridging the information gap between the government and its citizens; Why Haqdarshak works with local women and the training they receive; The challenges of training people in digital literacy; How many families and small businesses they’ve assisted, and how many female entrepreneurs they’ve trained; Collaborations they’re working on; The impact of the pandemic on their programs and technology channels and key factor meaning they could continue operating during the pandemic; The importance of both in-person and online options; Haqdarshak’s funding model and how they engage corporates to pay for justice (20min); The barri

In episode no. 63 I speak with Genevieve Wilkinson, Lecturer, Faculty of Law, and Dana Rutner Law and Journalism Student at the University of Technology Sydney and team leader of “Moral Code”, the winning team of 2021 Allens Neota UTS Law Tech Challenge for social justice winning team. We discuss: what attracted Dana to the challenge; the format of the Law Tech Challenge, and the stakeholders involved; the critical role of mentors from Allens and the importance of the Neota training; what made the difference to working well as a team; how the teams gained a thorough understanding of the issues facing their partner not-for-profit Autism Spectrum Australia, “Aspect”; how they tested their ideas and the apps; the winning “Raffle app” – what’s unique about it, how it assists Aspect and its likely impact; is potential to scale and the challenges in achieving that; ethical issues relating to technology including from a human rights perspective; other apps created during the challenge to assist not-for-profit partn

Episode no. 62 is with Lindsay Greatorex, Community Liaison and Education Officer (West Kimberley) with Legal Aid Western Australia (LAWA). We discuss: Blurred Borders - legal resource kits using visual art and storytelling to explain legal concepts in a culturally appropriate way why the kits were developed and how the project got started what sticks and rocks have to do with a bail process map the number of kits that have been distributed and who uses them the process the project team undertook to get the language and the art “right” the importance of community outreach in remote areas what accounts for the kits’ universal appeal how an artist identified what was missing and what that meant for adoption of the project by the community the form of user-centred design unique to this project the importance of collaboration across sectors the key benefits from the project some unintended consequences of the project how community workers have used the resource in helpful ways in local language the challenges of

Episode no. 61 features Dan Jackson, Executive Director and Jules Rochielle Sievert, Creative Director of NuLawLab, Northeastern University School of Law. The NuLawLab is the interdisciplinary innovation laboratory at Northeastern University School of Law. It is one of the first law labs established in the US and its staff, students and stakeholders are leading the way in the emerging global Legal Design movement. Through its programs, projects, seminars, and research the lab builds cross-disciplinary teams and community-based partnerships focused on transforming legal education, the legal profession, and the delivery of legal services. The discussion covers: how the NuLawLab approaches problem-solving and collaborates with artistic people outside the walls of academia to find new ways of moving through complicated issues and to provide people with greater access to their legal rights; how integrating various design methodologies provides the freedom to explore and to work with community needs and values; wh

Episode no. 60 is with Stephanie Rudolph, Deputy Director of Justfix.nyc. JustFix is an American not for profit which believe all tenants deserve dignified housing - and that technology plays a supportive role in equipping tenants and the housing justice movement with the tools, information, and organizing power critical to this fight for racial and economic justice. JustFix co-creates tools with tenants, organizers, and legal advocates to fight displacement and achieve stable, healthy housing for all, leveraging the power of data and technology to support individual and collective action for housing justice.  Our discussion covers: Statistics and types of housing issues prevalent in New York City and the impact of Covid19; Perverse consequences of rent laws which disproportionately affect low income, and elderly tenants; Justfix services and how it's been assisting people during the pandemic including with the hardship declaration and eviction tracker tools; A recent and surprising change to Housing Court

Episode no. 59 is with Nicole Bradick, Founder and CEO of Theory and Principle. Our discussion covers: Nicole’s journey from civil rights trial lawyer to CEO of a design and development company; Why 2018 was the right time to start Theory and Principle; Whether Theory and Principle responds to or creates a legaltech market; Why the Mission statement is to improve legal experience for all; Nicole’s focus on deliverables rather than size of the company and what will enable scale given the large pipeline of work; How she manages a broad and diverse scope of work for legal tech companies, large law firms and non-profits; Current and forthcoming products Theory and Principle have built for clients and in-house (Map Engine and a project to leverage pro bono work); Keys to managing a multidisciplinary team of lawyers, engineers and designers; How they use workflows/standard operating procedures when the way they do things is constantly changing; How Theory and Principle creates efficiency while developing bespoke p

Episode no. 58 features Roger Smith, Author of Law, Technology and Access to Justice blog. Our discussion covers: How Roger first became interested in law, tech and atj; How Australia led the world in legaltech; How cuts to legal aid meant it was imperative to turn to tehcnology; Why Roger started the blog in 2016 and who forms the law, tech and atj community; The one key issue Roger sees with developing and implementing legal technology; Victoria Legal Aid’s evaluation of a ‘dud’ project; His optimism /pessimism about technology and what it means for law; An early example of world-leading innovation, legal design and international collaboration from The Netherlands; How hackathons can be a way of supporting entrepreneurs in developing countries; The biggest changes Roger has observed over the past decade; The various clusters of innovation including remote working, reaching more people through remote information delivery; unbundling and assisted DIY, case management software, intakes and referrals; How case

Episode no. 57 features Anne-Marie Cade, Founder of coaching and mediation service Divorce Right. Our discussion covers: why Anne-Marie pivoted from traditional legal practice to coaching and mediation; what conflict coaching, divorce coaching and parenting coordination actually is; how the structured coaching process and setting goals empowers clients to make better decisions; how shifting mindsets aids conflict resolution and results in a win/win situation; the different aspects of a divorce that many people don’t initially consider and the importance of explaining the process clearly to clients; the process required for clients to make decisions they can stick with; how different communication styles can influence the other party’s response; how parenting coordination helps parents navigate their co-parenting relationship post-divorce; the circumstances in which Courts appoint parenting coordinators; the best time to appoint a parenting coordinator and why; training and qualifications required to be a par

Episode no. 56 is with Erin Levine, Founder and CEO of Hello Divorce. Our discussion covers: Erin’s journey from lawyer to legal entrepreneur and why she can’t go back; What Hello Divorce is and how it was inspired by Australian lawyers; How technology is saving clients tens of thousands of dollars; Key differences between traditional practice models and Hello Divorce; What Erin has learned about people’s behaviour during divorce; The process Erin undertook to develop the products and divorce navigator; Whether you should build software or buy it off the shelf; How Erin manages the issue of unauthorised practise of law; The challenges and benefits of expanding Hello Divorce into more States; Erin’s motivation for transparent pricing and subscription services; Key differences between marketing Hello Divorce and a traditional law firm; How to develop trust online; As a busy entrepreneur, how Erin maintains her wellbeing; The one thing that has made the biggest difference to her business; Erin’s definition of l

Episode no. 55 is with Dominic Woolrych, Founder of Lawpath. Our discussion covers: Lawpath’s origin story; Its current business model including how the subscription service works; The difference between “BigLaw”, “small law” and “tiny law”; The role of law societies in supporting legal innovation; Which software Lawpath uses and how it makes law “proactive”; One thing that is stopping lawyers from improving process efficiencies; Unexpected findings from surveying clients about legal design; Whether professional regulation is inhibiting innovation and how to overcome regulatory barriers; Whether clients should bear some risk in exchange for more affordable legal services; Keys to Lawpath’s success (including raising funding, consistent income and client retention); The multidisciplinary nature of the Lawpath team and how that assists the business; Lawyers’ responses to having online reviews, and the connection with new business; The one thing Dominic would have done differently on his entrepreneurial journey

Episode no. 54 is with Sheetal Deo, Founder of Shakti Legal Solutions and Ethnic+. Our discussion covers: An image problem the legal profession has created itself; Her key reasons for starting Shakti Legal Solutions; The mechanics of its unique model; The resistance she faced as a junior lawyer in establishing a law firm; How Sheetal is helping other lawyers who want to help, bridge the justice gap; Who is responsible for access to justice; Her learning curve relating to the business of law and what assistance she received; How knowing your strengths and opportunities for improvement is useful; Her thoughts on lawyers having a duty to innovate; The barriers to legal innovation; Her advocacy for CALD and rainbow communities through Ethnic+ and other activities; How systems and structures, not individuals perpetuate the status quo; The connection between diversity, inclusion and access to justice; The lack of accessibility of lawyers and legal services; What “privilege” really means; How Sheetal plans to use h

Episode no. 53 features Geoff Mulherin. Our discussion covers: The mandate of the Foundation and its practical approach to addressing legal needs; The importance of regular empirical evidence-based research; Findings from interviewing 21000 people about their legal needs; Where people most often go for legal assistance; How integrated multi-disciplinary services can help; Why the foundation developed interactive online legal data dashboards; Whether funding for justice needs redistributing across or within government portfolios; The need to view the justice system as a whole and reflect on who is included and excluded; The disproportionate amount of court resources for complex litigation as compared to legal aid budgets; The OECD and people-centred justice; The opportunity that the pandemic provides, to improve the operation of the justice system; The epidemiology of law and the need for “upstream strategic thinking” for justice; and Geoff’s definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic L

Episode no. 52 features Professor Professor Renee Knake Jefferson, Author and Doherty Chair in Legal Ethics at the University of Houston Law Center. Our discussion covers: The importance of understanding your own and others’ perspectives; Traits of the first female lawyers that make them the original legal innovators; The catalyst for Reinvent Law, one of the first legal design labs; The phenomena of new kinds of legal jobs; Her work as Fulbright Distinguished Chair in Entrepreneurship and Innovation at RMIT Key actions that will make the biggest difference for access to justice; Key findings from the book Renee co-authored, why it had to be written and has the title that it does; Who is Mildred Lily? The Rooney rule and the Mansfield rule; What is required to remedy gender inequality for minority women; How shortlisting preserves the status quo and is not a good indicator of inclusion; Her plans for future research; and Renee’s definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yo

Episode no. 51 features Professor Tania Sourdin, Dean and Head of University of Newcastle School of Law. Our discussion covers: the impact of Covid19 on the profession; what’s surprised her about online disputer resolution during the pandemic; the difference between Supportive, replacement and disruptive tech; the role that legal professionals should take in adoption of technology and their innovation readiness; the need for a uniform and national ethical framework for technology adoption in law; suggestions for regulation including sandboxes which allow for safe experimentation; what the legal profession can learn from service delivery in other professions including medicine; appropriate and inappropriate uses of technology and how different client cohorts engage; the digital divide even within the profession; the lack of meaningful data being collected by courts; and Tania’s definition of legal innovation! Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours. Links: “Justice in the age of technology: ’The