Gravity Leadership Podcast

We talked with Presbyterian minister and author Benjamin Perry about what happens to us when we cry... and when we don't. Weeping often opens a door to connection and transformation, but many of us have been taught to suppress our emotions and hide our tears. Benjamin's book Learning to Cry: Why Our Tears Matter is the result of an experiment he undertook: to cry every day.Benjamin Perry is a Presbyterian minister and an award-winning writer whose work has appeared in outlets like The Washington Post, Slate, Sojouners, and Bustle. With a degree in psychology from SUNY Geneseo and an MDiv from Union Theological Seminary, Perry has worked as an organizer with the New York chapter of the Poor People's Campaign and as an editor at Time, Inc. Perry has appeared on MSNBC, Al Jazeera, and NY1, and is the editor of the Queer Faith photojournalism series. He and his spouse, Erin Mayer, live in Maine.Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'

In this episode of the Gravity Commons podcast, we explore the complexities of anger as an emotion, discussing its role in personal relationships, power dynamics, and social justice. We reflect on personal experiences with anger, the importance of navigating it with compassion, and the implications of policing anger in various contexts. Our conversation also touches on the privilege of being able to disengage from anger and the necessity of understanding its roots in injustice.Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links each week to all things edifying and interesting.Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Podcast? Contact us at podcast@gravitycommons.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/gravity-leadership-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out:

We talked with Rick Pidcock about the role of anger in an allegation of abuse he wrote about in a progressive Christian organization, the need for self-awareness and humility, how social location affects how anger works, and the need to reform harmful hierarchies.Rick Pidcock writes for Baptist News Global. He has a master of arts degree in worship from Northern Seminary. He is also the host of the Baptist News Global podcast “Highest Power: Church + State.” And he is a stay-at-home dad.Links to resources mentioned in this episode:"Allegations against Tim Whitaker and The New Evangelicals show how hierarchy transfers to progressive ministries" by Rick Pidcock "That time I got an angry call from the subject of an article about anger and abuse" by Rick Pidcock"Comment from BNG’s editor on our coverage of The New Evangelicals" by Mark WingfieldTNE Reckoning, a site advocating for accountability, where you can download the full GRACE report.Exiles in Christendom - Rick's Substack newsl

Anger is a wily beast: easily misused, often harmful, yet also sometimes holy and good. Over the coming weeks, we'll be examining anger and the cost and benefits of being more acquainted with our anger and the anger in the world. In this episode, Christy Penley talks us through how anger could be a flag that's waving itself as an opportunity to grow in greater intimacy with God. Dr. Christy Penley is married to her husband Paul, a mom of 6, and pastor at Pulpit Rock Church in Colorado. She has spent her professional career teaching the Bible to kids, students and adults, and recently received a DMin from Denver Seminary. Christy is a facilitator for Gravity's Formation Course and offers one-on-one coaching for both pastors and lay people.Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links each week to all things edi

We talked with Dr. Paul Penley (yes, Christy's husband!) about how we often misunderstand what Jesus meant because we don't realize that he was participating in and responding to ancient conversations we don't have immediate access to. Paul's book What Jesus Meant: How Ancient Conversations Redefine Jesus’ Message helps us understand that Jesus was not just making points; he was making counterpoints, and this makes all the difference for how we interpret his words.Dr. Paul Penley is a New Testament scholar and former Bible professor at the college and seminary level. Paul writes books to share academic research insights which redefine our understanding of the Bible, but normally get lost in technical journals at graduate libraries. He loves seeing readers freed from the misdirection and disillusionment caused by bad Bible interpretation. Dr. Penley studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic on his journey to better understanding Scripture in undergraduate and post-graduate degrees. He studied biblical

Many of us embarked on our spiritual journeys filled with hope and certainty, only to find ourselves questioning the very foundation of our beliefs as life unfolded. The faith that once seemed unshakeable may falter in the face of broken trust, unanswered prayers, and the harsh realities of worldly suffering. But Catherine McNiel and Jason Hague - authors of Mid-Faith Crisis: Finding a Path Through Doubt, Disillusionment, and Dead Ends - help us understand that we're not alone in this experience. Mid-faith crises are a shared human experience that can feel isolating yet are a crucial part of our spiritual journey.Catherine McNiel is a chaplain, author, editor, and speaker. She lives in the Chicagoland area with her husband, three children, and one enormous garden. Her previous books include Fearing Bravely, All Shall Be Well, and Long Days of Small Things, which was an ECPA finalist for New Author.Jason Hague is the associate pastor of Christ's Center Church near Eugene, Oregon, and the author of Achi

We talked with theologian, writer, and ordained priest Shannon Kearns about his new book, No One Taught Me How to be A Man: What a Trans Man's Experience Reveals About Masculinity.Shannon T.L. Kearns is a transgender man who believes in the transformative power of story. He is an ordained priest, writer, and theologian whose work revolves around making meaning. He is also a sought-after speaker on transgender issues and religion, as well as a skilled workshop facilitator. Kearns' work with Brian G. Murphy at QueerTheology.com, which he co-founded, has reached more than a million people all over the world through videos, articles, and online courses. Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links each week to all things edifying and interesting.Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Podcast? Contact us at

We talked with theologian and professor Lee C. Camp about his podcast No Small Endeavor, and what it means to live "the good life."Lee C. Camp is an award-winning teacher and Professor of Theology & Ethics at Lipscomb University in Nashville, Tennessee. Lee is also the host of No Small Endeavor – an acclaimed podcast series exploring the habits, practices, and dispositions that facilitate human flourishing, a.k.a. the good life. He is the author of several books, including Scandalous Witness: A Little Political Manifesto for Christians.Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links each week to all things edifying and interesting.Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Podcast? Contact us at podcast@gravitycommons.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/gravity-leadership-podcast/donationsA

We talked with Palestinian pastor and theologian Munther Isaac about his book Christ in the Rubble: Faith, the Bible, and the Genocide in Gaza, which challenges USAmerican Christians' uncritical embrace of the modern State of Israel. Speaking from his unique vantage point as a Christian pastor on the ground in Bethlehem, he reveals how Israel's campaign to eliminate the Palestinian people is a continuation of a colonial project with nineteenth-century roots that has, since 1948, established systems of entrenched discrimination and segregation worse than South Africa's apartheid regime. In this powerful conversation, he calls on Christians to repent of their complicity in the destruction of the Palestinian people, and challenges them to realign their beliefs and actions with Christ--who can be found not among perpetrators of violence, but with victims buried under the rubble of war.Additional notes:The Kairos Palestine document (creative non-violent resistance)Munther Isaac on Facebook, Instagram,

We talked with professor and author Andrew Root about the ironic reality that our modern pursuit of happiness has made us stressed, anxious, lonely, and depressed, and what evangelism and outreach might look like in this age of despair.Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary. He is the author of more than 20 books and hosts the influential When Church Stops Working podcast. Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links each week to all things edifying and interesting.Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Podcast? Contact us at podcast@gravitycommons.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/gravity-leadership-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

We talked with Anglican priest and spiritual director D.T. (Danny) Bryant about his book Unless a Seed Falls to the Ground: Welcoming the Death of the Whiteness Gospel, where he shares the wounds and rewards of being a native son of the puritanical way of life called "whiteness," and offers the hope of inviting us into a season of "hospice spirituality" that allows the church rooted in the whiteness gospel to die with dignity.D.T. (Danny) Bryant serves as a priest at St. Mary of Bethany Parish, as a Spiritual Director with The Center for Hope and Healing, and as Athletic Director at Independence Academy in middle Tennessee. He is also a co-founder of the Black Mental Health Counselor Reparations Foundation (bmhcr.org). Daniel is passionate about seeking practical, just, and merciful healing in the world and enjoys life with his wife and four children.Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Joi

We talked with Mariko Clark about conceiving, writing, and publishing a new children's Bible story book: The Book of Belonging: Bible Stories for Kind and Contemplative Kids.Mariko Clark is a Japanese American author, mother, and storyteller on a mission to help kids embrace diversity and wonder. Her time as an editor at National Geographic Learning sharpened her ability to make complex topics accessible and engaging. She equips kids and caregivers with spiritual resources to navigate the messy middle, wrestle with tough questions, and find community in the journey. Mariko lives outside of Indianapolis with her husband and three sweet and spicy kids.Additional notes:Mariko mentioned the concept of "windows, mirrors, and sliding-glass doors”' in children’s literature, originated by Dr. Rudine Sims Bishop. Here’s a short clip of Dr. Bishop explaining the importance of diversity in literature for all children, regardless of race.Michelle Eastman (@disabilitytheology) was the resident Disability theol

We talked with Tom Oord again about a lot of questions that came up in light of our conversation about his book God Can’t: How to Believe in God and Love after Tragedy, Abuse, and Other Evils: If "God Can't" determine outcomes unilaterally, what can God do? What about miracles? What about the renewal of all things? Can we be confident that God's love will "win" in the end? This was another mind-stretching conversation on open and relational theology.Thomas Jay Oord is a theologian, philosopher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. Oord is a best-selling and award-winning author, having written or edited more than thirty books. Academic Influence ranks him among the most influential theologians in the 21st century. Oord directs doctoral programs at Northwind Theological Seminary and directs the Center for Open and Relational Theology. He is known for his research and writing on love, open and relational theology, science and religion, evil and power, and the implications of freedo

Content Warning: situations of sexual abuse and rape are mentioned in this podcast.We talked with internationally recognized psychologist Diane Langberg about coming face to face with the crushing trauma of sexual abuse, trafficking, domestic abuse, and rape—and its cover-up, all tragically encountered within Christian communities and the church. In her book, When the Church Harms God’s People, Langberg unveils what she has learned about how churches cause harm and why Christian communities often foster unhealthy leaders who end up hurting rather than protecting God’s people.Diane Langberg (PhD, Temple University) is an internationally recognized psychologist with more than 50 years of experience. She chaired the advisory board of the American Association of Christian Counselors until 2021 and cofounded the Global Trauma Recovery Institute, which trains therapists to assist trauma victims across the world. She is the founder of Langberg, Monroe and Associates, which provides counseling services in Jenkintown,

We talked with "TikTok Pastor" Brandan Robertson about how the Bible has been weaponized to exclude LGBTQ+ individuals, despite Jesus’ radical message of inclusion. In his book Queer & Christian: Reclaiming the Bible, Our Faith, and Our Place at the Table, Robertson offers compelling, evidence-based counterarguments to the "clobber verses" often used to condemn queerness, and envisions a faith where all are unequivocally embraced.Rev. Brandan Robertson is an author, activist, and theologian known as the "TikTok Pastor." He hosts the Faith for the Rest of Us podcast and has authored or contributed to 26 books, including the INDIES Book of the Year finalist, True Inclusion. His work appears in TIME, The Huffington Post, and The Washington Post. Named in Rolling Stone's 2021 "Hot List," he speaks at venues like The White House and Oxford University and is a champion for LGBTQ+ rights. He is pursuing a PhD in Biblical Studies at Drew University.Connect with Gravity Commons:

We talked with former evangelical pastor Jeff Mikels about the evangelical church's embrace of cultural and political idols, and his regret of his complicity in this trend. Jeff's book Evangelical Idolatry: How Pastors Like Me Have Failed the People of God is both a confession and a call to repentance. Reflecting on his twenty-year pastoral ministry with candor and humility, Mikels acknowledges the ways he enabled parishioners to develop destructive loyalties to cultural and political idols. As he works to reform his own worldview and embrace allegiance to Christ alone, he urges evangelical pastors and laypeople to join him in reforming their faith and living out the good news of the true gospel.Jeff Mikels holds degrees from Wheaton College and Denver Seminary. He has over 20 years of pastoral experience, leading a church in Chicago for five years before planting one in Lafayette, IN. There, he was involved in the Pastors' Alliance; he also helped establish the Greater Lafayette Gospel Associatio

We talked with author and hospice chaplain Kevin Sweeney about his new book The Cosmic Christ and the Concrete Jesus, where he talks about how Christian mystics and the Black prophetic tradition have helped him find his footing as a Christian.Kevin Sweeney is the author of two other books, The Making of a Mystic and The Joy of Letting Go. He is also chaplain for hospice care, and currently lives in Honolulu with his wife, Christine, and their two kids, True and Mikayla. Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links each week to all things edifying and interesting.Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Podcast? Contact us at podcast@gravitycommons.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/gravity-leadership-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https:

We talked with trauma therapist and Licensed Clinical Social Worker Adam Young about exploring our past stories to help us make sense of where we are now and begin to imagine who we would like to become. Adam wrote Make Sense of Your Story to help people explore their personal stories, and how they still impact us today.Adam Young is a trauma therapist and the host of The Place We Find Ourselves podcast. He is a licensed clinical social worker with masters degrees in social work and divinity. Adam regularly speaks at conferences and currently serves as an instructor and facilitator with the Allender Center in addition to his private practice. He lives in Fort Collins, Colorado with his wife and two children. You can connect with Adam and his work at adamyoungcounseling.com.Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links eac

We talked (again!) with Sheila Wray Gregoire about dispelling the pervasive myths about what makes a happy marriage, and looking at actual evidence to understand what creates intimacy, emotional health, and connection. Sheila's new book is The Marriage You Want: Moving Beyond Stereotypes for a Relationship Built on Scripture, New Data, and Emotional Health, co-written with her husband Dr. Keith Gregoire.Sheila Wray Gregoire is an author, podcaster, and sought-after speaker who is passionate about changing the evangelical conversation about sex and marriage to line up with kingdom principles. Sheila is the host of the Bare Marriage Podcast and has written several books including The Great Sex Rescue and She Deserves Better: Raising Girls to Resist Toxic Teachings on Sex, Self, and Speaking Up. Sheila and her husband Keith live in Ontario, Canada.Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Comm

This week, we spoke with Dr. Emily Hunter McGowin about reimagining the definition of a "biblical" family and the ways that family can embody the work of the Kingdom. Her new book is Households of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God.Dr. Emily Hunter McGowin is Associate Professor of Theology at Wheaton College. She is the author of Quivering Families (2018), Christmas (2023), and Households of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God (2025), a practical theology of family framed by the church and the kingdom of God. Dr. McGowin and her husband, Ron, also a priest, live in Chicago with their three children. Connect with Gravity Commons:Leave us a message or ask a question about this or any other episode and we'll answer it on a future episode.Join the Gravity Community to interact with other listeners, and get our list of curated links each week to all things edifying and interesting.Are you interested in advertising on the Gravity Podcast? Contact us at podcast@gravitycommons.com